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Les Hughey to The Modesto Bee. Exactly one month ago Highlands Church in Scottsdale, Arizona celebrated its 20th anniversary. According to a recent video …. In Les Hughey was wrestling with what he should do next. God had used him in so many ways in worship across the country, youth ministry for years in Scottsdale and several other churches, but now having just moved his family to the city of Monterey, California and feeling like it was the wrong place, what was God calling him to?

One day the answer came with clarity — start a church — Start a church in a place where you have a heart to reach people with the Gospel and teach them the Word of God.

That place was North Scottsdale…. Over the last two decades Highlands Church has grown to mega status under the leadership of its founder Les Hughey. The founder of a popular megachurch in Arizona admits having sex with girls in his charge when he was a married youth pastor at a prominent Modesto church four decades ago.

To view the sexually graphic video that accompanied The Modesto Bee article, click here. The Highlands Church in Scottsdale recently released two statements , and they are included in screen shots below. Two days ago The Modesto Bee published another article stating that three more women have come forward with sexual allegations against Les Hughey. Notice that they are from a different state. A youth pastor fondled three more young women in Arizona after a prominent Modesto church quietly let him go for having sex with other girls, all three told The Modesto Bee on Monday in new allegations.

On a related note, a young lady named Jennifer Roach has been interested in clergy sex abuse and its effects for over two decades. She has a website that addresses this topic, which you can access here. Be sure to check out her credentials. No doubt the following information she recently shared is what led her to address clergy sex abuse. Here is her story. It was bursting at the seams with young people. There was so much excitement and amazing things were happening.

Pastors came from all over the country to observe what was happening. The California sun shined down on us and we felt like the luckiest people in the world. Well, the sun shined on some of us. And some of us — 13 of us — were under a much darker cloud.

For a while, I thought I was the only one being sexually abused at our church. Then, slowly, I learned about others. Today I am aware of thirteen who were also being sexually abused — and I suspect there are more hiding in the shadows, not ready to tell their stories. In January of this year, I decided to tell my story.

Over the course of two months I worked with a reporter from http: That reporter, Garth Stapley, published my story on February 25, I had no idea what to expect. Mostly I thought it would be an interesting local story for 1 day, and then everyone would be on to other things. And I was okay with that.

But then something entirely happened. I was shocked and hurt, devastated really. But that was a lie. For at least a decade before they had been quietly dealing with victims of sexual abuse in that church. And they were very good at getting us to be quiet. It was beautifully done and I was as excited for them to get to speak as I was for myself — maybe even more so.

I had daily conversations with 2 of them women in the story, and we frequently wondered aloud: The pastor who abused these 4 girls, Les Hughey a different pastor than abused me had left that church in Modesto and moved to several other locations around the country. And never changed his ways. Within hours of the story of the 4 new victims posting at The Modesto Bee, a newspaper in Phoenix, where Les had pastored in 2 megachurches.

One victim posted a comment on the story saying that she too had been abused by Les. I was frantic to make contact with her. Amazingly, she was in traveling in India, but had seen the story and was willing to talk. I helped her get connected to the reporter from the Bee and she shared information with him.

Since then, multiple women have come forward — and more are still coming. I could never have anticipated the impact that telling my story has had. Most of them had no idea that there were others. And now they have each other for comfort, support and action. And I am just as proud and satisfied that the churches involved are having conversations about how to deal with this — and most of them seem to be doing a pretty good job navigating the waters.

There are 4 churches involved right now and all of them are making a good effort. Crosspoint Modesto appears to be stuck. They may have new leadership, but they are playing out an old pattern: As you can see, Jennifer Roach demonstrated tremendous courage in getting the truth out about Les Hughey.

She is a fantastic role model for those who have been hurt by clergy. One of the blessings of this blog is that we have developed friendships across the country and throughout the world. One such friend is Deanna Holmes , who providentially lives in Arizona. The signs she made are pictured below.

I woke up Sunday morning before 6: I saw my friend Benjamin Wheeler had posted an article about yet another youth pastor from the Modesto Bee. A married 23 rear old youth pastor and two young women. But otherwise, it was tiresomely familiar. The women were told to shut up and the guy was given a lovely sendoff. I was already committed to picketing the Sovereign Grace in Gilbert, so I checked the Arizona Republic to see if it had the story.

At that point, my mind was made up. I checked Google Maps to make sure there was a public sidewalk by the church. Then I drove 30 miles to North Scottsdale. My initial signs said: Les Hughey is credibly accused of statutory rape. I parked in a nearby lot and walked over, GoPro strapped to my hand, hat on head and gosh, they were not excited at all. I was told not to come on the property OK by me. And I just basically stood at the main entrance with my sign, catching attendees as they turned in.

I saw more gaping mouths than I could count. I wonder how many hits the Modesto Bee got from that location yesterday? Oh yeah, there was an off-duty Scottsdale PD officer with cruiser on site. After the 9 am church service started, I went over to a coffee shop and got a white mocha and croissant.

I had posted to Facebook and Twitter that I was going out and Jennifer Roach was hard at work getting reporters out there. To say I was stunned would have been an understatement, but I told everyone I would walk back at There was a cameraman from Fox 10 Phoenix out there and I did an interview with him. During the interview, a woman driving out of the lot yelled something like I was gross or garbage.

He got that on camera. Once we were done, I went back to protesting. I got heckled by some more people older guy yelled out his car window to Just Stop and I had a sharp exchange with one of the parking lot attendants another older guy.

I was told that Hughey was going on a leave of absence. At the very best he committed adultery and at worse, statutory rape. However, my knees do hurt a little bit. Right after that I drove home. During the early afternoon I talked to a reporter from the Arizona Republic and, later, the reporter from the Modesto Bee. They were both amazed I did it. The only thing that amazes me was that I was able to get off my duff and get out the door so quickly on a non-work day! Highlands Church, like Highpoint before it, has decided on a leave of absence rather than firing Les Hughey outright.

I know where I will be spending my Sunday mornings until he decides to get out of pestering permanently. Justice for Tracy Epler, Jane Berryhill and other women victimized by this lecherous creep. No doubt there will be more developments in the days and weeks to come, and we will do our very best to keep you informed. As more victims of clergy sex abuse come forward, we hope that pastors are paying very close attention.

The Modesto Bee has just reported that Les Hughey has resigned as senior pastor of Highlands Church in Scottsdale — the church he founded twenty years ago.

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During the interview, a woman driving out of the lot yelled something like I was gross or garbage. He got that on camera. Once we were done, I went back to protesting. I got heckled by some more people older guy yelled out his car window to Just Stop and I had a sharp exchange with one of the parking lot attendants another older guy.

I was told that Hughey was going on a leave of absence. At the very best he committed adultery and at worse, statutory rape. However, my knees do hurt a little bit.

Right after that I drove home. During the early afternoon I talked to a reporter from the Arizona Republic and, later, the reporter from the Modesto Bee.

They were both amazed I did it. The only thing that amazes me was that I was able to get off my duff and get out the door so quickly on a non-work day! Highlands Church, like Highpoint before it, has decided on a leave of absence rather than firing Les Hughey outright. I know where I will be spending my Sunday mornings until he decides to get out of pestering permanently. Justice for Tracy Epler, Jane Berryhill and other women victimized by this lecherous creep.

No doubt there will be more developments in the days and weeks to come, and we will do our very best to keep you informed. As more victims of clergy sex abuse come forward, we hope that pastors are paying very close attention. The Modesto Bee has just reported that Les Hughey has resigned as senior pastor of Highlands Church in Scottsdale — the church he founded twenty years ago.

Sex scandal forces resignation of former Modesto youth pastor. The founding senior pastor of an Arizona megachurch, caught up in a sex scandal with roots in Modesto, has resigned, congregants were told Wednesday evening at a special meeting of Highlands Church in Scottsdale. Top pastors in Modesto sent Hughey packing but covered it up, several victims said, enabling him to reoffend at another church in Arizona, three more women said Monday.

Hughey led a year celebration only four weeks ago. Earlier Wednesday, Highlands had erased Hughey from its website except for notices regarding the scandal. Scottsdale Bible Church also began an investigation. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Thanks for letting us know. I have updated the post with this breaking news. Repentance seeks the welfare of the victims.

May these women get the justice they deserve after all these years. I appreciate all the coverage about all the sexual abuse scandals going on in various churches, but I hope that coverage resumes here about how U.

Christianity mishandles therapy and biblical counseling — and telling anyone with depression or other mental health maladies that they should just pray it away.

A lot of those same Christians also teach that marriage is a necessary ingredient to make someone into a mature and moral person, and that anyone who is still single over the age of 30 is juvenile, immature, or lacking in some other way. It is sick and needs to end! Part of me wants to cheer, but then deep grief takes over. No one is safe from these men.

Every day we hear of more revelations. Heart wrenching stories of real souls who have been used by despicably evil men. It will take time to unravel this one. Very much like the Andy Savage story. Out of the same manual. At least the victims will be spared some of the kabuki-like theater engaged in by rabid defenders that too often accompanies these situations.

This after the same guy reportedly made comments about grace and repentance. He may have retired as he is not listed on staff of FBC now. I wonder if Hughey was a promoter of these materials or even a leader or teacher in these programs at FBC. From a missions page of FBC: Robert Lewis, have influenced millions of men around the world. Our newest tool, 33 The Series, is a multi-volume, gospel-centered video series that presents the timeless truths of Authentic Manhood in a powerful and engaging way.

It is based on the life Jesus modeled in His 33 years on earth. Dee Holmes — Another scandal in the town I grew up in. There are too many scandals around and too few like you. The wealth of the area attracts scoundrels unfortunately. God speed to you wherever you picket on Sunday: Driscoll, SGM or this exceedingly wealthy church. Christians just would not know what to do with a real Old Testament prophet if one came to picket their church this Sunday..

How do we balance showing love for all without endorsing all decisions or sexual ethics? Off-topic, though still within the spirit of the rules, I hope — is your visit to Edinburgh still on, Dee? This lie never fails to astound me because of its audacity. That is a problem, and I am sorry that singles get treated that way.

It is very religious to talk about fleeing sexual sin, so they do it. It is not too popular to talk about how the church wants the butts in the pew and the money in the plate.

I think the New Cals also work from the hierarchy angle, to keep everybody in line. Then they expect husbands do the work of keeping wives in line for them. I agree a lot of the non New Cal churches do it for money reasons and because they view singles as too transient.

When are one of these men going to thank God for his wrath toward sin and his justice? How about thanking God that he reveals the truth even when they try to cover it up? If they were truly sorry for their sins, they would be thanking God for giving them one last chance to come clean and allow God to extend his healing grace to the victims.

Over 40 years ago, as a church intern in California, I sinned and harmed the most important relationships in my life. I was unfaithful to my God, my wife, and the ministry, and was rightly removed from that church. I engaged in consensual relations with fellow college-aged staff.

This is sure something. One of the victims reported that Hughey was praised etc. Also one victim who had intercourse with Hughey has indicated it started when she was In articles I have read about people like Weinstein is that they have such egos etc.

This sure sounds like Hughey. It is something how this has been hidden for this long. Also something how Hughey was able to be in ministry this long with this unrepented sin. Right at retirement age. When I was looking for the sermon I referenced in the discussion on John MacArthur in another thread, I found this gem:. This is the grace of life.

And if you are married, have children. He came and went. Settle for somebody less. And, men, stop looking for the Proverbs 31 woman. That is an ideal to which women aspire. And the truth of the matter is, find another Holy Spirit-led, loving Christian and get married. I noticed that also. If a person has never gone to their victims and apologized, to their former churches and confessed and apologized, to their congregations and confessed and apologized, they have most certainly not repented.

Even if and when they do, forgiveness does not demand that they retain their position, privileges and reputation. A confessing abuser must still pay for his crimes. And should certainly never hold a leadership position in a church again. A truly repentant sexual offender would also inform any future church leadership of his past, even as a mere member.

It is the innocent that the church is called to protect, not the guilty. This sounds so much like my former Calvinist pastor. He was always harping on the kids, while they were still teens, to get married as soon as possible, not have long engagements, etc.

Why was he released? Why move your family to another state only to leave a year later? Opening quote as well as other quotes by the predator, Les Hughey, reflect that it is still all about him — his life, his important relationships, etc. In his mind or the story he has promoted it was all consensual. Unfortunately, MinistrySafe is in the wrong business — protecting predators and their ministry church playgrounds. Young believers, like old believers, need mature saints of God to disciple them.

The American church needs to seriously consider changing the youth ministry model. These reports are becoming all too common. How the heck did Mr. Hughey continue to move through church ranks for 40 years?! Well, church leadership back then should have done the same thing that church leadership should do now: Forgive if he repents? Restore him to ministry? There are no New Testament examples of pastors who have committed sexual sins with those under their care being restored to ministry.

Hughey forfeited the privilege to pastor a church 40 years ago. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:. I am convinced that is true. And that in protestantism which says bible, bible and bible. He told them about Jesus so he could have his way with them, pants down. Training ground for the predatory leaders: Move on to build a mega, lining your pockets, with the side chick deal going on, a la Bill Hybels. Is there a training manual for this somewhere?

Is it in the seminary curriculum? These predators seem to all know what they are doing. Ah, well, there is the example of the culture we live in and what we as a culture tolerate-even applaud. So in my opinion it is all of the above, and probably more than that also. When I was looking for the sermon I referenced in the discussion on John MacArthur in another thread, I found this gem: Sadly, we have many examples of that in the American church.

The GSK just got caught and he is in his 70s! You should probably get a harsher penalty, actually. And then immortalize them with a stained glass window in a chapel. And then you get to submit for the rest of your life to this total stranger who maybe thought you were attractive or something. And you can never divorce. It is also in the culture, by a certain age you are expected to have married.

Someone who has divorced once or twice is not considered odd. JY, I can tell you are getting more stirred up like me with this continuing string of reports on bad-boy preachers! One of my best friends goes to one of those very large churches and I have gotten the strong impression that they appeal to the desperate nature of singles to appeal to single women. So if you are a single woman who wants to get married, you get the pick of the litter, not the other way around. How can a sexual predator build a mega church?

Hybels was a… a what? What was the draw? A local church was run by an ego-maniac. When the church grew and they hired a 2nd pastor, 1 refused to collaborate, so yes, he was all about him. Some members actually read their Bibles, so they took their Bibles and left that mess. Was there anything of God there in the first place? I suppose it depends on how one defines it.

I think they define it as: Makes perfect sense, but I probably should not be giving them ideas. That was Bill Hybels, or maybe both. Brigham Youngs who can turn that Personality Cult into a self-sustaining system are pretty rare. They are at least as much to blame as I am. That choice of words in his statement is more than a little disingenuous.

Ken F aka Tweed wrote:. Is it any wonder they struggle with concepts of consent? They seem unwilling to group these behaviors properly. Highland has very quickly acted in a way one hopes every church would when presented with this info they found out the same way everyone else did..

The same is true for plenty of folks outside the church. One of my co-workers is For all I know he may need to spend a few years working in another field before he can finally retire. Promiscuity is fine unless you are married, and even then allowances can be made. Promiscuity is fine unless it violates age of consent as variously established by your state. Promiscuity is fine unless you are gay and then it is not fine. Perversion is not okay unless within marriage and then it is fine; consent not necessarily required.

Celibacy is not okay; no excuses allowed. Abortion, antibiotics, psychotherapy, meds and lawyers, all of which are better than sexual repression. I have to over-generalize and perhaps be a bit strident because I just want to get my thought across without writing four paragraphs nuancing it. I grew up solidly evangelical until my Mars Hill experience where I slowly and painfully migrated to a theology and worldview that is decidedly different.

Composed primarily of folks who want to role play real followers of Christ probably not a large group of people , and are continually trying to put a finer point on things than God probably would. It is fundamentally and severely different from what happens in the clubs. However Financial comfort makes it easier to deal with the loss of legacy. In fact, husband-bashing sounds like a recurring theme of his. He reminds me of a fictional character from the s who only seduced married women because the unmarried ones might inconveniently insist on marriage, and he wanted to remain free to pursue his interests.

I should have been more clear. There is a big difference when these things come out when you are 45 than when you are from a career and financial perspective. Want a good education in what kind of so-called church you should stay away from? You now have another good example.

If you cant learn from this, pray that God will open your eyes. I did not watch it all, yet but was struck by it. Used to hear that at covenant life church. Brought back some more memories. Both equally Out-of-Balance, just in opposite and mutually-hostile directions.

Nancy2 aka Kevlar wrote:. Or that Internet Meme I saw once with a smug slimeball face implied rapist: Muslin fka Deana Holmes wrote:. These wicked men ARE pestering the church. Highlands has responded to this matter in a way all others should model. They have been transparent and acted immediatly. Les Hughey may have founded Highlands but he is not the Church. You are showing the world how handling these matters is supposed to be done. But he treats me much better than the last one that did.

No, I mean promiscuity. Are these guys limiting it to one person or are they being promiscuous? I mean in the words of my former husband getting more —than a …. Which seems to be about their level of functioning. Well, they are still under the authority of their fathers. They have been transparent and acted immediately. You are showing the world how handling these matters is suppose to be done. I am a retired pastor following 35 years in ministry including 10 years as a singles pastor.

I am aware of only one situation where the church I was serving on staff had a predator a seminary student doing a youth internship with us. He is now serving 40 years in a Texas prison. A pastor is to guard the flock and that includes dealing with wolves of any sort or pedigree. The internet era has been a blessing in that it has shined a light on situations that were unknown, covered-up or ignored. As a singles pastor I did get a warning call from the singles pastor of a sister church warning me about a guy in their church that they were dealing with asking me to look out for him should he come to our group.

I shared this with our leadership team and asked them to make sure to meet new people and let me know if they ran into this guy. I wonder if Hughey…. Let alone you are inferring that folks that believe that way are like this guy. That is simply not the case AND I think you would agree. Well, it appears my definition would be different from yours, at any rate.

Have no idea where I fall in societal ethics…. Bill Cosby [American entertainer, actor] guilty verdict handed down on all counts today — live updates https: Cosby, 80, could end up spending his final years in prison after a jury concluded he sexually assaulted Temple University employee Andrea Constand at his suburban Philadelphia home in He claimed the encounter was consensual.

I have read that one reason churches fixate so much on married couples is they think that marrieds bring in more money. These days, more people are not marrying at all either due to choice or circumstance , or are marrying later, and the ones that do marry are putting off having kids, or choosing not to have kids. There are many more single adults living alone these days. And some of them have jobs.

A lot of them do. One of my pet peeves about complementarians: This is a problem which is going to have to be addressed. There is no sense merely chasing off the foxes who are lured to the hen house, something must be done to secure the chicken coop.

I think that church people have to educate themselves and give up their childish dreams that some how everything will be okay if only people think pleasant thoughts. Willful ignorance has consequences. I feel exhausted just trying to untangle all the self-righteous bullshit these guys spew. However when discussing this with one pastor, he still believed he should be the filter before authorities were involved. As a Christian, I find the blanket statement that Christians are naive to be very offensive.

Yes, you will find naive people in church but you will also find lawyers, scholars, doctors, cops, etc. Trust me when I say the word naive would not be a word people would use to describe me. My background allows me to speak professonally on the subject of preditors. I can say without hesitation that preditors exist everywhere. The church does not have the monopoly on this matter. Churches that truley want to protect thier youth seek professional help on proper procedures.

Good churches are transpearent about everything including issues such as preditors. I have been a member of a church who liked to cover things up and put on a happy face so I moved on. I now go to a Church that I know will aloways do the right thing no matter how difficult.

The church I attended seemed to have better safeguards. One of the youth leaders got into some sort of sexual escapades, and he was dismissed abruptly-no big going away party. We were told he had been sexually promiscuous, and that was all, but we were told. Jennifer Roach has done an outstanding job in sharing her own story and advocating for others.

Her courage, fierceness and boldness are attributes I applaud. There was a huge imbalance of power. In that particular church, they half-heartedly started several ministries to singles, and always found the worst possible leader. And of course, then there was the guy who stalked all the women who came and the church refused to oust him even after I went in there and demanded that they did.

But most churches fail miserably when trying to reach singles and barely even make an effort to do so, and then they blame it on singles. I worked in a school district where stuff got swept under the wrong staff always found out years after it occurred until a teacher did something so heinous that the principal knew about, that the entire district blew up.

My personal goal would always be predator-free, but the realistic side of me hopes for much fewer incidents, better reporting, and staving off a crisis because someone reported odd behavior. I do attend Highlands. I followed the story after it was posted and watched carefully how Highlands handled it. I was very impressed at the speed in which the board reacted and how willing they were to be transparent. If they tried in anyway to protect Les, I would have been out there myself with a sign this week.

I realize most of these abuse crimes are against girls. My passion on this matter comes from being a 14 yr old boy who went to a Catholic boarding school run by Brothers of the Sacred Heart. I know first hand the pain and how it will effect your life. There is a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I support Highlands becasue they did it right….

This is so important…to realize we are fallible! How many people have been out in danger by sheer hubris, people who think they can look into someone eyes to find if they are lying. Some singles have family, friends, activities in town…and some really need that. Community at church should not be only for marrieds.

I agree that is a place many are failing. It depends on the church though. Holding a professional position outside of church does not equate to having spiritual discernment about what goes on in church. Education is not the same as revelation knowledge.

Intellect has little to do with wisdom. Thousands of highly educated folks at Willow Creek were blind-sided by the Bill Hybels scandal. I suspect lots of very smart folks at Highlands are amazed at the allegations against Les Hughey.

How is the church missing deceivers in the pulpit time and time again? Being deceived is not the same as being naive. My comment only addressed the blanket statement that Christians are naive…and therefore apparently bad things happen to them becasue of it.

If they did, the American church would be in a bigger mess than it is already. The show will feature interviews with men brought down by the metoo movement. And some of the morally-bankrupt preachers reported on TWW should be there. What a sad chapter we are living in church history. And Hollywood is doing a movie about the reporters. You should read up on SGM. It was full of educated professionals.

So is Capitol Hill which requires membership covenants to obey leaders,. It probably has more to do with people being more transient and looking for a family in a church.

We tend to trust first. Most of us have been there. Being extremely educated has little to do with the bigger problem, ironically. A simple youth with discretion is wiser than a guy with advanced degrees who has no moral compass and who does not fear God. Is that about the reporters at major outlets who sat on stories for years until McGowan etc. Yes a million times! Is there any one of these guys who apparently was truly convicted of sin and confessed — without being caught — and demonstrated credible genuine repentance?

Why on earth would anyone stay single? They are sure cavaller about a major life decision, acting as if it does not matter who a person marries. I have more sensibly stringent requirements for choosing platonic friends, than some Christians have in telling Christians who to pick for a life partner. A Christian with a seminary degree, who is s strong spiritual leader, who has blue eyes, who works as a lawyer, whose middle name is Quebert, whose favorite animal is a pink elephant with green spots, who liked to play ping pong while standing on one leg, etc.

The standards with this sort of Christian is so incredibly, ridiculously high that no man could meet them, so the single ladies who listen to this and take it seriously remain single indefinitely.

I was like, is he serious? I would need a lot more in common with a guy I was thinking about marrying other than Jesus. That may be changing in secular culture, since more an more people are choosing to stay single on purpose or are delaying marriage. Yep, that would be KAS. Their worldview is that consent may be assumed. At the very least there is nothing wrong with fornication — or adultery. They are attempting the impossible — to keep a sexual free for all for themselves and stop men from sexually abusing women.

The christian worldview entails a standing assumption that consent has not been given, it is only publically given in a marriage service. So, once a woman married a dude, she is always obligated to give him sex even if she does not want to?

That is marital rape. One wonders if KAS, and other Christians grasp this at all. Les was the Junior High School youth pastor and several youth leaders for the various junior high schools in the Modesto area reported to him. He may choose to call himself an intern now, we all called him the Jr.

He was cool, charismatic, funny, good looking, he was a rock star. He was a rock and roll star. He had the position of authority-pastor-.

He had the status-rock star-. He had the charm-sociopath-. He was the perfect storm. Well, that, and also if the person in question is having lots and lots and lots of sex with lots and lots of different people, not just one.

I stand by my quote. And those pervs are totally correct. More so than doctors, plumbers, and whomever else you mentioned.

Many Christians like to live in a G-rated, Christian, squeaky clean bubble. It is terrible but true—sexual predators target churches. In the mind of a predator, a church offers a compelling target and, too often, an easy target. I recently worked my way through On Guard by Deepak Reju and learned that there are at least 6 reasons why sexual predators specifically target churches.

Child abusers recognize this fact and want to take full advantage of it. Well, oops that page I cited seems to be quoting some other expert in the field, but Anna Salter did say in some interview that perverts target churches, because, they told her, Christians are generally quite naive, making their task of grooming and fondling kids ten times easier.

Well, I am one single who is not interested in leading, teaching, or starting a ministry of any kind not for singles, not for anyone else. I never ever see this standard put out there for marrieds. It is a double standard. Not if one is trying to divide and conquer. Liverpool are in a strong position after the our GiveUsYerMoney Cup semi-final against Roma; although since Roma beat Barcelona in their quarter-final home leg to go through on away goals, the two late wickets we conceded bothers me.

We need some early goals in the away leg next week. In the other semi-final, Real Madrid not to be confused with either Athletico Madrid or Fake Madrid are all but through to the final following their win at Bayern. Although, to be fair, the Gunners have a decent away record in Europe. In Further Other News: This train is extraordinarily crowded due to the cancellation of an earlier service. Have any of you ever heard of hyperbole? I have heard this sermon and there was laughter. He references the laughter at one point.

As if he was seriously going to start marrying them right there. All of you have posted in this thread, a very serious post by TWW. You folks need to loosen up a little. Oh, and I found this in the sermon too. How can we put up with this ogre? Do I always achieve that end? Ask her, she will tell you no. But do I always desire to achieve that end?

I submit to her joy, to her fulfillment, to what blesses her and encourages her and exercise my leadership in that way. As I said to you earlier how you and your wife decide to structure your marriage is a private matter until you start teaching it to others and claiming it is biblical.

Then it becomes a public discussion and debate. If there are no restraints placed on someone then there is no authority over them unless you view it as an authority card that can be played at anytime you decide.

Many of us do not believe wives are children who need an authority figure except Jesus Christ. Who cares if there was laughing? He thought he was being funny—mega leaders often do primarily because they get the cheapest and easiest laughs in the business, if stand up comics got laughs at D grade material as easily as these thoroughly unfunny megachurch leaders do when they take their amateurish-cringe-worthy stabs at humor, every professional comedian would kill every night, every performance —but he meant what he said and said what he meant.

There was a point to it, and you know it. Just another enabler and defender. Nonsense, see right through you. The church in Modesto said nothing. I needed to go back and read it.

This is what happens when I read too many things at once. Thanks for pointing that out. Thing is, most bigger churches who have bought into the ideology of filling as many seats as possible totally fail at actually ministering to people over the long-term. I think most of the churches I have been to that do try to separate everyone have not been successfully providing a nurturing place even for the people they are targeting.

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