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Some husbands whose wives refuse to perform oral sex on them complain that other women do this for the men they love and if their wife really loved them they would do it; but some women are not comfortable with oral sex, whether to give it or receive it. Oral sex is like the countless sex positions that have been invented.

It is not a necessary part of the sexual experience. One of the most common remarks made in the comments below by husbands complaining that their wives refuse to perform the above mentioned sex act is that their wives loved doing it before they got married but as soon as they got the ring on their finger then all of a sudden they stopped doing it and changed their tune as far as how they felt about the act.

If a woman loves performing oral sex she loves performing oral sex. Getting married will not suddenly result in her no longer loving any particular sex act that she loved before she got married. If your wife seemed to love doing it while you were dating then started saying she hated doing it after you got married, it is more likely that your wife never loved doing it in the first place.

Otherwise, if she really did enjoy it and now acts suddenly repulsed by it, something is going on that is making the act repulsive to her. Like some people commented below, if you care enough then try to work with your wife to identify and resolve the issue. Both men and women do this. It is also true for men. Where we once saw each other as someone to work extra hard to please in order to win, we reach a point of not seeing each other as someone to work extra hard to please in order to keep.

So we stop doing the extra stuff particularly when it comes to keeping up with the things that create and maintain attraction. People like to say that as long as a woman feels loved and secure she will open up sexually. It could be your smell even. Whatever the source of the repulsion, only women who get paid for sex in some way usually have the ability to still perform despite it.

So are you in some way repulsing your wife? The same way a scent can be powerful in attracting people to you, it can be equally effective in its power to repulse people and make them recoil from you. It would certainly to be worth it to talk to your wife and rule this out as a possible reason or identify it as a contributing factor. She does want to make you happy in any way she can; but for her this is not just a simple matter of deciding not to have a problem and proceeding to blow your mind after making that decision.

And what is it that you most want? How can that happen if your feelings towards her are so ugly that you would rather simply trash her here or elsewhere online than go to her and talk with her honestly, openly, respectfully about your feelings and desires and your concerns that her neglect as you perceive it could cause major problems for the two of you and possibly end your marriage?

Hi, though my real name is not Soliel, it is the name I have chosen to represent myself here. I am a freelance writing wife and mother who is in no way an expert in the subject of love and marriage. My posts, particularly any posts that appear to be giving advise or providing answers to questions, should be regarded as an expression of my personal opinion on the subject of discussion.

Nothing I write is meant to be presented as if coming from an expert source. I have no professional qualifications or specialized knowledge in marriage and relationship fields of study. I am not a marriage counselor nor do I have any background in counseling. I present my thoughts much in the same light as a mother, sister or friend might.

I only hope to help contribute to the ongoing conversation about love and marriage relationships and what makes them succeed or fail.

If you disagree with something I write you are welcome to share your thoughts by leaving a comment. I do get to approve or disapprove my comments so please keep in mind that comments intended to offend are not likely to be approved.

If anything I write offends anyone I do offer my sincere apology. The same can be said of foreplay if your opinion is right. Some of my closest friends and I have had the same experience with our wives. Oral sex was great before marriage, and after marriage, it became a chore. Men like oral sex as much as women love foreplay and cuddling after sex.

Oral sex is not only a turn on, it represents that our lover wife is willing to give us pleasure. As wives continue to avoid giving their husbands oral sex, husbands will continue to find other avenues to satisfy their sexual needs. Women love to receive oral sex, but act as if the penis is disgusting…and that is simply not fair.

I get a bj or 69 at least once or twice a month. With three kids, washing clothes, dinner and taking care of the kids is way more important than oral sex. I dont advocate any married man to divorce over this issue until the kids are out of the house.

It would terrible for any father to do that. I would rather see man have a Mistresses or prostitute then to divorce. Dude u r sooooooo lucky. My wife is not into sex at All anymore and makes me want to jump off a bridge. I have to beg for head. Still not a big deal. I do agree divorce is not the answer but cheating is so much work. You are a total loser.

I get sucked everyday by my gf. You need to leave that dying bitch if she doesnt suck your dick everyday. I cant keep my hands off my husband ever since I got over my fear of giving him head…thinking it meant I was a slut.

He wouldnt respect me, I was dirty. This is the most erotic fun I have ever had in my life. Thank God he was patient with me and let me talk through my fears and insecurities and then said I could practice as much as I needed till I knew how and what got him off.

He gets an erection and Im all over it. I feel like Ive gone and lost my damn mind. When he gets home from work and exhausted falls into bed I tell him go shower quick cause you know whats gonna happen when you wake up with morning wood.

I cant control myself and if your dirty Ill be pissed. Ladies…do something with your husbands penic even if you just lick it a bit to get use to it and keep talking to your husband about your feelings and work through them. My light bulb moment was when dureing one of our talks I realized I was calling his most imtimate body part dirty and disgusting. Never once has he ever called my vagina that. He says its beautiful. I felt so terrible for saying those things but I sure am makeing up for it now and not just cause he likes it but cause after awhile of doing oral on him I have begun to crave his body.

I promise your marriage will be on fire. Your man is very lucky to have you I have done all these things I eat out my wife all the time tell she squirts and I still get none back.. Melt her favorite candy bar and cover your penis with it? Slather on her favorite ice cream? Some woman are just afraid it means they are a whore if they give head. Dip it in flavored kool aid sugar mix.

LOL Try some stuff to make it look appetizing. Wrap a pizza around it? I dont know think of something before you go nuts cause its fun as hell. Jerk off while she kisses it. Thats how my husband started with me cause I couldnt do it fast enough and I felt uncomfortable doing it so he helped me. Just try to get her to lick it or kiss it once in a while and moan like crazy when she does it. But dont make her finish it till she gets herself use to it and feels more comfortable and ask her how she feels and let her work through her issues with it.

Woman have a lot of issues with giving head dont be offeded its society that has destroyed our sexuality as woman saying were whores if we like it. If your wife is willing to receive oral sex and have orgasms as the result thereof but unwilling to reciprocate the it is time for the talk. If I was you I would explain to her of your want and need for reciprocation or just head to completion.

If she is pissed off because she does not get what she wants then let her be pissed off. She may try to piss you off and egg you on. It is time we be the men we were created to be. Most women these days act like spoiled children when their every whim and want is not met.

Guess I just have to be good with the lame sex life.. Not going to cheat just have to deal with it. No husband should feel like this way. Dont give up yet keep makeing her laugh. I love to give my husband a bj I love to surprise him by doing it we could be in the car the driving watching tv I say drop em and thats that. I hate to say it but this is true. The only thing you can do is suck it up and drive on, get it some where else or leave her.

As time went on it went from more than twice a day to not at all. I love my wife. I have been married for 27 years. Prior to marriage my wife was all over me and gave oral sex without requests.. That is the only way she is worth a shit in bed. I have contacted and hired a divorce attorney.

When pretty wife turns 'fat and ugly'

I have this ex who contacts me after every few years and stalks and tracks my movements me on social networks. We broke up in ! Once in a while, I get friend requests from him on this site or other. I am just silent nowadays. Now I am getting over a break-up with this guy who was showing signs of aggression should he not get what he wanted from me, and I am still angry that I keep getting involved with these creeps.

I will console my self that I got to see the games that the latest guy was up to. I think know a sense of awareness I am not so shocked when I realize. I need to find different kind of guys to date. I feel sooo happy for each of you. Every one of you are at different points in enlightenment, but not one of you has appeared to be regretful to the point of losing resolve and going back into the fire.

It is early am and I should have been asleep for hours already, but I just wanted to check in before going to bed on which is now Saturday am. I have such a warm feeling in my heart for all of you.

The whole tone of this blog is changing as more and more of us are getting smarter and flushing the scumb bags and toxic individuals from our lives. Keep it up everyone. By the way, I should have listened to you in the other post about following your gut. I went out with Jim and it was so awkward. I mean, the outing was fine and everything. Like you I go to BR, when I get home. Sleep Well and hold tight. We are no longer on the Island Of Lost Boys.

Natalie, another wonderful article, thank you. They even said to me: I heard from two guys who were serious Ass Clown. The one who is now married I found easy to ignore. But the other one ….. He pretended to want a relationship. Now that was almost embarassing but it was his game to how far he could take me into his web of deceit. The answer is NC in the future. He was stroking his ego to play my vulnerability. Perfect timing for me to read this.

I have stopped beating myself up for being human! I only really figured out I had been used after I split with the AC. The whole time we were together the prevailing story was that I was too sensitive and that he really liked me but I had trust issues. My self-esteem was still so low I was like, what could he possibly be using me for?

At the same time, I had this wonky idea that if I was being used for sex, that must mean I was attractive enough to be considered a sex object. Which one is more veiled and audacious? My sister, who is quite older than me and we never got along due to many reasons, asked for a huge favor recently. I live in the states and the rest of the family lives oceans away. The favor is an illegal act in USA but is the basis for lucrative business, mainly allowing pregnant non-citizens to gain birthright for their newborn.

Couple weeks before this my mom told me my sister is getting married and I should congratulate her. I was not invited to the wedding and did not hear this big news directly from her.

Of course I sent a congratulations message. I was in shock. I said no and the whole family turned against me. My mom accused me of being selfish and threatened to disown me. My sister followed up with a nasty email filled with fear mongering, particularly about how angry my father was due to my descision.

Then the silent treatment started. My mom even defriended me on FB. How immature is that? My sister has a long history of being a user in small ways- only contacting when she needs things to be shipped from US or when she wants me to buy something for her to bring along during my home visits. I never imagined such transparent and disrespectful act though. I did have boyfriends who took advantage of my generosity before but none hurt this much. This person is invariably given the role of being the only life preserver amidst two dozen grasping people drowning in their own failures.

This family life preserver has a job and a car, pays the bills on time and stays out of jail, so they automatically become deemed the only problem solver for everyone else in the damn family. Need bailing out of jail again? And if the family life preserver ever refuses a crazy request, or god forbid ever tries to move away, they pile on like a ton of bricks.

Because they have absolutely no idea of boundaries or when enough is enough. But they are overlooking your right of refusal to commit an offense. Wow Grizelda You described my life and the woman I used to be. I had been used in so many ways by so many over a very long period of time that I did not know there was any other way to be. When I finally woke up there was no turning back.

I ruffled many feathers and experienced the painful realisation that they did not care about me. I want to thank you, Natalie and all the people who post on this site as you all remind me of where I have been, how far I have come and that with support, I can face the truth and begin make postive choices. Dear Grizelda, Thanks a lot for the insightful post. You are right about how few individuals manage to rise up from the dysfunction in problem ridden families and they constantly face the dilemma of helping versus enabling.

I am, however aware of the personality disorders of several family members and had to escape to US to study to run away from it age I swear if I have any sanity I owe it to being so far away. Because it was my descision to stay here with no financial help- I had to support myself during college, paid for all expenses. Worked in construction, nursing homes and in a factory line. Because of financial independence I could say NO. My sisters had everything paid for including cars, homes etc.

It would have consequences. The kids you mentioned have so much tougher, I admire anyone who can rise above the deep dark hole that keeps on sucking them in. A comment from a different angle: I have also been that younger co-worker who hits on an older colleague.

Just before I left to come out east, over six years ago, I hit on an older guy at work. I was totally not expecting it when he came out to the coast and had flowers and chocolates waiting for me in his hotel room. I have to say he never called me on it, and is still a FB friend and generally responds if I message him, which is hardly ever. IF he was hurt then yes, I would regret that.

I remember this now when I am thinking about ACs. Anyway, like I said, not sure if this is a helpful contribution but this post did make me think of him, and FWIW I learned from the strawberry incident and from being used in my turn by subsequent ACs: It just means I know it would have been more honorable and respectful to leave him alone in the first place.

I agree with this a lot. I think that a side-effect of having low self-esteem is that you a feel justified in doing whatever you have to to boost it It hurts. It was a casual relationship. He could say I used him to go to nice restaurants, to see concerts, plays etc. To him though I can see it was all about sex and a listening ear while he talked on and on and on and on about himself.

I think he thought I would be flattered to be seen with him a minor celebrity and flattered he would chose me. I think I have to agree with Yogurt all what I was thinking about myself too ugly not good enough for a real relationship etc are all points he could hone in on and use to his advantage. I also taught him that he could treat me like a piece of crap and use me becuase I was such a doormat.

Not sure if the kissing mentioned is reference to yr memory of this from previous dating or a bit of a snog recently? My suggestion for a way forward is the same on both counts. He may have been being genuine I first read that this way , or on the other hand, just stroking yr ego we all know guys who operate like this. Either way, time will tell. And it was incredibly nice, because we were in a standoff about it happening.

But before I jumped into a cab at the end of the third date he took me in his arms in a gentle but firm way and kissed me softly without any nervousness at all…fuck, Mills and Boon are going to come after me for copyright violation. Anyway, you get the idea. Unfortunately my poker face is shit. I got a lot from yr post in this thread Rev. Being unwell also means time on my hands to ruminate. This has stung a little but at least I know where I stand. Frankly, I feel pretty shite on the whole being used issue.

I cant quite recall. Magnolia not sure if you recall this? I used to have a lot of hangers on. They harkened bk to my years as a professional musician. I also feel decidedly depressed. I try not to initiate contact too much with her these as she does my head in a bit. I have no other real friends in the outer suburban area where I live there have been two — they both eventually moved away.

A third still lives 20 mins away but is too busy with full time care of her young grandkids now to have the time or ability to do anything together anymore as I too, due to physical illness am not good at planning ahead which she definately needs. I do try to make friends here by attending local groups as appropriate etc but nothing much has stuck except as mentioned, even after 10 yrs here now.

Prior to getting sick a couple of yrs bk, this was never an issue. Plus I had weekends on which to do bigger outings. Long term illness has caused most of my friends to fall away, at least from close contact. It makes a difference.

Yes, I was just trying to separate knowing where you yourself stand on various social scales from evaluating your own worth. We are social animals and if you grow up in or find yourself in a group that does not value you, you get the message that you have no value or have no idea that your unique you-ness is there to be valued as the priceless, irreplaceable wonder that is you. You may grow up trying to prove you are priceless and irreplaceable to others and to yourself rather than enjoying or discovering your priceless-irreplaceableness on your own and with friends.

I for one am glad to have you post here! What you said is brilliant. So true what you eventually figured out. We send out messages unconsciously concerning what we think of ourselves. Your initial thought gave me pause. However, I certainly understand the skittishness. Because you are a regular here, you will naturally have your attenae up and you will know soon enough if he is earned your eventual label for him.

My one lingering though on the negative side is that he may be lonely and if it were not you it would be someone else. These are some pretty big endeavors. Can you help him significantly with these issues? You will know soon enough. I know you know all this. Sometimes its good to have someone else tell you and to reinforce it.

I have to say, if I was in his position, I would want to call the only person I knew in town too. Is he doing it because he thinks I can be useful, or because he likes me? I do like him and I love sex. Right there is how Ms Determined gets into the most trouble. Time to pull out the Spanx pants. No one can get into those.

I had no response to anything nice I ever said and my pitiful requests to talk it over. So, there you go. I was even used in the way of supplying him with care and a listening ear.

I literally cannot believe that I have such a low opinion of myself in this area when I have so many wonderful friends, am good at my job, have a lot going for me creatively, and am a decent person. This is the start of my recovery and I am going to have some counselling to deal with stuff.

My dear, this above comment is your guet-out-of-jail-free-card, for feeling that 1 he was up for any kind of normal relationship 2 it is about you and 3 that you owe him any compassion. As I recall he is also a liar who supposedly can get mute women to speak…. I just want to say, be gentle with yourself. Erase every trace of this guy from your life. Many of us have been right where you are now and can say with certainty, it does get better.

Going complete NC is the only way to stop ripping off the scab of a shitty relationship or ending. Put a bow around that shit and get it in vase, STAT. And never, ever, EVER talk to that asshole again. I am doing my best. I am trying to be kind to myself but I have beaten myself up for so long and laid the blame entirely at my own door. Otherwise called a blindspot…or, lack of experience. NOW, you have the experience, are in the best place to discover the knowledge that goes with it, and now you know and can only do better for yourself.

I say this to you, ladies — when it feels like every last bit of your self-esteen, self-worth and savviness has gone, there is always a little bit left. Seems to be the case for me, anyway. This place is ace and though I feel better, I will keep coming back here because there is the odd weak moment, but only because old habits are hard to break. Thank you one and all. Sums up what I been through. Coming near to 6 weeks now.

Any contact sets me back. I feel so stupid for ever believing the fairy tale he fed me. Always happens to me. I have to say this whole experience has been one of the most hurtful things I have ever experienced. I LOVE this website …. When you have to work hard on getting them to treat you like a queen that is the biggest red flag.

Many, like my ex Narc will rise to the occasion when you give them a challenge and they begin to treat you like a queen to get you because you become the big prize for them. They will for certain go back to who they were once you start to love and trust them and you will be left shocked and reeling. He needed the ego-stroke, and I needed to hold onto false hope. As painful as it was, it was an interesting look into the workings of a Narc AC. Before I had the sense which is still a daily act of will to flush him from my life, he would lure me in by telling me about his fresher love affairs.

Yes, the bigger issue was that I LET him talk to me like that about his other love affairs. What was I thinking? Number One — YOU! Change the recording in your head and things will change around you. Please delete my number.

I just feel such a fool. It a long history, thought he would be different, but ended up being the worst out of the lot. I was feeling better, just a bad patch the last 2 weeks.

You are going in the right direction! Yes there are bumps in the road. Yes some days are better than others. Gillian Very true Getting out of the madness is the key. Narcissists are dangerous people. I really believe they are evil hence the saying wolves in sheep clothing. The sooner you get out the better off you will be in the end. Ah Natalie, you look right into my life!

As it was thirty years ago, I genuinely struggled to remember why we split up. Then slowly it came to me. I always had a niggling feeling that he was using me to make his ex GF jealous. Yep, they went back out with each other within a week. I have stopped contact now and it looks like he has slunk away. He preferred to get his sexual kicks solo. He was using me just the same though as my needs were not being met, and everything was on HIS terms.

Victorious I had a somatic Narc. Loved bragging to me about the harem. He was sexual and the hottest sex I ever had and I think I lost my mind. Passive aggressive Narcs are so hard to spot. Feigned empathy and was so charismatic and funny. Treated me very well and was probably the most generous bf I have ever had but that was an additional hook to suck me in.

His devalue and discard game was an issue off and on in the relationship as well as him coming back begging and declaring undying love after I would NC him. It was so exhausting and gut wrenching.

It was so me! Can you believe the cockroach actually told me he would get rid of the harem if I would take him back. I felt like I wanted to take a shower and climb under the bed. Just to clarify he went right back to his old ways and the harem after we broke up.

At one point when I agreed to be friends of course he tried to weasle back in. I sarcastically pointed out that it might be difficult since I knew he was seeing at least two different women.

Were you going to dispose them? I knew his narcissism got 10x worse since our breakup. Narcs get worse with age. I would never trust him and there was no turning back! You will only see me when it suits me and so much other implied stuff. You gave me a aha moment.

Have you posted before? You are ahead in that you see your mistakes and will not repeat them. Take good care of yourself, please. Forget that scumbag, NOW. Stay with us you will learn a lot and become much, much stronger.

This makes me question so out of the times HE dumped his casual sex partner, b. As I type the more I realise what a line of waffle that whole comment is! I also thought after my last post responding to Ms D, how covenient for him he happens to also works in a related prof area. This raises the Q does he intend to milk Ms D for her prof contacts too? He also turned out to be a lame friend in the long run anyway.

Who are these guys!! LOL Was yrs bk now so I can laugh abt it in hindsight. You post on your phone huh? Either way, we have a bloke who is interested in sex WHAT? PS Did you say party? He sounds like he is on the make having read your post. A man who needs a woman in his life to define him but when his feelings get involved he bolts.

The clues actually glaring red flags are there like casual sex, ends relationships, never married, falls in love and runs. She conceived their first child that night! I thought this person was my friend.

When we met he was going through some relationship problems as he had cheated on his girlfriend. He confided in me about the guilt and pain he was going through and I eventually close to him. He eventually ended the relationship with his girlfriend and we got closet or so I thought. Around Xmas since we were long distance, we decided to exchange cards.

However we got into an argument and he decided he no longer wanted to send me a card. That hurt me a lot and still do esp after I had booked a trip to see him before that argument came about. After that I ended up being the one initiating most contact. When time came for my previously booked trip he informed me that he had met someone new and would not have much time to see me. Although things had gone south I still thought we would have spent time to work on things. He never contacted me.

I ended up csncelling the trip. But it still hurts. And I feel used. It was so easy for him to discard me when I geniuinely cared about him. Mine too, was a passive aggressive cheat- serial cheated on ex wife. Why I thought his character would morph into a man of character, is beyond me. Because we think we are going to be the exception and even if we are for awhile they will go back to who they are eventually.

I too was horrified to read of how that AC treated Yoghurt. So glad you escaped from him. You also gave me food for thought. I really liked what you said though about us sometimes giving others the info they need to hone in on our vulnerabilities. I think Nat did a post on this a while back. Your comment gave me food for thought to mull over re some of my own issues. It sounds like yr being very harsh on yrself. Extricating ourselves from these r. Pointing this out is supposed to wryly make you laugh ;.

I can tell I am at the very beginning of this process because I feel a mixture of things, still. Perhaps I should just let time do its work. Day 2 of NC — oh, well done Me! So glad to have helped you. Take all the time you need. You have it until the end of time. I have been entangled with a psychopath for 3 plus years, and I am finally getting to the other side, I do not give him anything he asked for.

So the spaces between him contacting me are getting longer and longer, and soon he will be in my past. This has been a painful journey, but I have learned and grown so much, I dont think I would change a thing.

It served a purpose for awhile, but now it serves no purpose in my life. I am happy and content without all of the drama. I love your blog so much, sometimes painful to read, but you have always been right on point…. You are one courageous lady. Feel sick in my gut. As why else, was she now acting so strangely?

I did try to go totally NC at one stage a while back but eventually caved in the midst of a crisis due to the desperation of my situation at the time.

I thought perhaps she might even have undiagnosed bi polar disorder as her presemtation from first knowing her, presents to me as mimicking the symptoms of that at times. I now dont know what to think. She has 5 kids, 4 are young adults. Only 1 still dependent. Then I got sick with cal issues. There is some validity to this. Can anyone tell if it sounds like I am being over sensitive or not? Sometimes events happen good or bad in your life and change your way of thinking.

Hope you have better and brighter days and God fill your heart and life with peace and happiness. It makes me very uncomefortable. So unfortable I have explicitly raised all of this with her. She claims to be overwhelmed with her own life. I hope this makes some sense. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this? She texted afterward the second time but I still thought this quite rude! LOL Also she may have just been a bit lonely. I notice these two now hang out like best buddies while I am out the cold!

The interesting thing about this is that I can predict what the future holds for this woman, even just based on the limited contact we occassionally now have from time to time. She has NO retirement savings having been welfare dependent all her life and is only 6 years off earliest retirement age, especially if you factor in time she will need to invest in properly educating herself in order to have a solid career, which she has proclaimed to want so far she has done a short course only.

If she continues as she has been I predict that she will blow most if not all her the inheritance which is not invested in property within the coming few years and be left broke again. But You should go light on yourself cause its not your fault you are sick,I hope you get better soon and overcome what you are going through.

Just keep being your wonderful self and things will work out. Second, I think you already know the answer with this woman friend, but you are trying to justify this behavior to yourself. How can I tell? Some people do it consciously, some unconsciously. But there it is. Need I say more? Why do people who are users get SO bent out of shape when someone else uses them? Why do they not look at how terrible it makes them feel, learn from the experience, and stop using others??

I can relate to this. I guess a boulder just fell on my head today? He could NOT of been any meaner but oh I kept going back for more. He said well I must live with my life what am i to do? I am working on loving me now…I am done looking in the rearview mirror! I tend to be very forgiving.

I can now recognize these users. My ex husband is a user. One man, after calling me to brag about his new vehicle, that he could drive up to see me now he would invite me out closer to his place, claiming car issues , implied he wanted me to call him the following night when I had to cut the call short.

I just said goodnight. Now when I am contacted by boomerang former dates, I am more direct. This post could not have come at a more opportune time for me; a few days ago I had an epiphany about someone I thought was a friend. Thank you Natalie for reinforcing and validating that what I was having was not a friendship or a relationship. My ex boyfriend used me a lot!!! Anyways I got used… I paid for him to have gas in his car, anytime we went out I paid because he was broke all the time, on weekends he would sleep at my place…there is more, but all I got in return from him was a shag and nothing more.

Truth was he had met someone else and they had already been on a few dates and I suppose he figured she had more to offer… here is the funny thing, hysterical actually!

My situation sorta similar but much more tragedy and shenanigans. Sorry u had to go through that but,looking back at my situation,I learned so much. This love stuff is coming together in my mind a lil and it makes it easier for me to see what I want and what I can bring to a relationship when the guy comes into my life. I am 1 week Nc how sad I had a slip up and paid deeply.

My feelings have been going away I have been batteling and trapped in my own feelings also just wanting to be right or win him over since 02,we losttouch for a yr cause I d the past 2 yrs when his mind was made up and he had moved on without verbally telling me but,the signs were in my face. Actually we had been seeing each other off and on for a yr at the time I was strong enough to walk away and actually I had someone. He died in a car accident and I meet back up with the Ac soon after.

In the beginning of us meeting back up I was closed off and I he was ready and he said I rejected him and admit I did. I hope we all have better and brighter days!!! We were expected to be dependent, compliant and obedient and that is still the case for most women in the world.

It is sometimes very subtle. But then I think my fears also lend weight to this. I need a thicker skin — most definitely. Still I wonder if I had done things differently would things had worked out between us? I read on another site that u should basically have boundaries in order and treat the man with love. Do I have to be some perfect barbie doll? I have few girlfriends who were dumped by their boyfriends for Oriental girls…All these guys were saying, that their new girls are submissive, quiet, nice, loving and caring, like a real traditional family — oriented women, but us Westerners do not know how to threat a man!

I believe I was submissive caring and loving,then some of that went out the door when he left for a mth after I told him I was pregnant.

I believe in a way that was submissive because I took him back or maybe just plain crazy. He asked to be back in a relationship I said no. But I will work on me and I know its a great guy waiting for me that will love and care for me and my family,and I will get that happy ending. Only a real sicko would want a pet as a girlfriend. My dad before I implemented no contact on his ass would say shit like that about women.

These men are very shallow. He may be using her but she might be using him too. Grace, sorry if I upset you, I did not mean it. I just talked to one of my friends she is Oriental , she is married to American man, has a child with him. I wish I could help her to leave her monster-husband.

Shame about your friend. Unfortunately, that happens to women all over and from all over the world. True, no woman in no continent is an exception. Yet they are made to think the only way of keeping a man by your side requires being obedient to a man. You both are so right. I have seen that in all women some get burnt out from it and become resentful some enjoy it, its really your preference and you are so right it happens to all women. Lacy, Your post does make sense and does apply.

Do you want a man who wants who you are not? Tried to create the fantasy, the barbie look, the submissive lifestyle? I have come to realize that I gave up me, trying to get some AC to like and be with me, all the while he was just using me. I have decided, that I am no longer going to compromise myself, my values, who I am for a man. And those that want to use me, will end up walking away. And so be it. I have seen healthy relationships, and there is trust, honesty, respect, companionship, love, and friendship.

But each person is authentic, and genuine. So that is where my focus is, I will speak my truth, be who I am, not run to fix or caretake, only fix and give care to myself right now. I am away for a week right now, vacation with my daughter who had another baby, almost 3 months NC. In the past, he would have taken me to the airport, watched my dogs, and spend the entire time texting me, crying about being abandoned, that I must be with another man, threaten to get rid of my dogs, shoot them and bury them int he back yard, desert my car on a road side somewhere, absolute insanity.

Today I am having a wonderful time, totally focused on my family, my dogs are in a kennel, I took a cab to the airport, my car is parked safe at my apartment, and the management knows that I am gone for a week, so all is well. And I am totally at peace. Kathleen…I am really not sure if there are or not. Most of the really great guys I do know are married or in a relationship already.

For me I am on a dating hiatus and it may be forever. And I am Ok with that. I have spent most of my adult life with men that I look back and think what was I thinking…My life now is at times lonely but its drama, AC free and that refreshing…. When men keep pushing relentlessly, you know sooner or later that man will use you.

Why bother sticking around to find out how far? I will share an example with you: I got myself a coffee and took a seat. Your boundaries need practice, and practice will save you heartache and yes money as well.

I learned the hard way for years. We love and expect to be loved, healthy exchange. However we are not all wired the same intellectually, mentally, emotionally.

Thank you wishing you all well. Oh yeah, I get you, Cat! All ended up in jerky way-he just vanished and ignored any attempts of mine to contact him. All of those types are nothing but timewasters, con-artists and sex thieves.

Identify them and remove them from your life because being with them means only one thing: These men can actually bring as much to the table as you can, as foreign a concept as that might seem sometimes!

Yes, there are, but I think it takes time and observation to spot them. I mean these a hole men scour the ends of the earth looking for their next victim. These men are monsters. Kathleen, I agree with peanut, and the others. There are great men out there and lots of them.

My AC gave me some valuable lessons, he told me he joined some of the dating sites, the meet-ups etc looking for a hook up. It was easy to troll online and not get off his fat ass to go out and meet someone, and he could lie about who he really was.

So I told myself, I need to get out, and put myself in places that there are people that I will see and be around to get to know them first. I am staying off line to meet a man.

It really comes down to me. I have to take care of me, trust myself, respect myself, value myself, and with that I will attract healthy into my life. Sounds like one of the hardest things, to do in my life on a daily basis. But you know what? I am worth it!!! I heard all the negatives from AC, and you would think I was a terrible person. Only to learn from BR that was the scam, the game, the grooming that my AC used to get me to become submissive, question myself, and try to get him to validate me.

ALmost three months NC and on here every day has pushed me to a place I have never been before, and I am loving it! There are good people and bad people. There are people of good, decent character and there are people of deplorable character. Like say you have a man who does great humanitarian work, or an astronomical heart surgeon who helps millions, but both men cheat on their wives. Humans are complex, but the dating thing is actually a lot simpler than I think a lot of us, me included, make it out to be.

This website has really got me through everything, and this time last month I was feeling like I wanted to just fall asleep and not wake up, so I thank you all for your tales as this has helped me get stronger!

I am thankful that he and others afterwards revealed his true colours to me sooner rather than later. Still oddly seeking validation in the form of a text, but now 1 month NC and I know this will pass with more time. He was bad for my lungs and bad for my heart. Thank you NML and keep up the good work! This is definitely a thing though. Do guys still think a campervan is cool? Here in the UK still very cool and hipster provided they are a certain make and vintage.

My brother had a midlife crisis and bought one, not a shagging wagon I might add he is happily married. My latest AC had a hankering for escaping life in a campervan! Mallory, If they were honest it would look like this: Does that work for you honey bunches? Now, can you be available tonight at 2am in case I fail at the bar? Did you gain some weight? They need to lie to get their selfish self centered using needs met. They are con men of sorts. Selkie… Thanks for the chuckle: Wow…this so describes my situation.

I am always the consolation prize. I have enough crumbs from him to open a bakery!! I pretty much go through life not wanting to wake up. I hope it gets better. The weird thing is, the more more pain I stick with and process, the more I love and appreciate myself, the more I grow. My ex drove a weird van at one point in his life not when we were together. He was a complete weirdo. He used me all throughout and never cared or even gave it a second thought.

When I expressed my hurt just once, that was it, he was out of there, gone for good. Moved off to the mountains and took up with his ex. I cried for near a year. Still crying in fact. This literally broke my heart. I remember that though it has been years; you need support!

Do you have a shrink? Do you have supportive freinds? I am not going to commit suicide. No worries about that. Thanks for the support. The words from BR ladies do make it better, even if only to keep me from crawling back to the ex.

Peanut I really feel for you. I honestly believe that the lessons I have learnt from the narc experience have helped me in many areas of my life, not just with romantic partnerships. I know it sounds like a broken record but it really does start with you and the painful business of brutally honest self reflection. Also, the really good bit. The taking care of Peanut for a change bit. This I found very odd and different, but by treating myself better I have higher self esteem and can feel that I am emotionally more resilient than I was before.

Sending you more cyberhugs! After the breakup, I cried in a closet non stop for near two days. And have had bits of hysterics for near 11 months. I have, as well, had that rocking back and forth kind of pain. I am just filled with this overwhelming sadness. I cut contact with my alcoholic father around the same time as the breakup.

He was my only living parent. My mum died some time ago, so it gets tough not to have parents in your twenties, though I know I should be parenting myself. I just feel more like an adolescent than a near thirty year old woman. I too hope you have some support. I believe her and it will get better for you too. Keep growing, one day he will no longer matter to you. I just read your comment to Nene. It really is true they just do not care one little bit.

Words really are cheap. This is a mirror of my childhood experience when my father took off. I keep repeating to myself that this is not about my worth, this is not about my worth. You have a lot to be angry about. I guess I do to. I can identify with your realization about a reinactment of the past. She had the fairy tale in her head, the reality was another kettle of fish and when he left when I was thirteen I was actually relieved.

I think this has been the greatest revelation for me. I always interpreted my fathers actions as a reflection of me. Lilly, Peanut, hold your heads up, things are going to get amazing, truly amazing.

I have been used in every sense.. But I was never treated with the same respect. He had issues and broke up with me last week.. Sent him a message of encouragement. He has some sort of hold over me and I hate it.

I hate that I let me wall all over me time and time again. I know its hard, um very hard when you have been with someone for so long, been there done that but I can tell you by experience it is possible. And the longer you stay NC the stronger you will become.

You are a person of worth and dignity, regardless of what has gone on in the past, he is a using piece of scum. Chin up and keep reading BR. Lost, For me, it tapped into needing to be needed, or wanted, even when it was disguised, that I was being used. That is the naive part of me. And somehow doing something for somebody, i wanted something back in return.

Them to validate me, that I was a good person. I have short circuited that today, realizing I have to validate me. If not week by week, then definitely month by month. A key part to recovery is to identify a couple of RL friends who can be there for you, but whom you know you share good boundaries with. When I go through my worse, I have a friend whom I will talk to non-stop. If its too much for him, he tells me, but in such a wonderful, non-abandoning way, it almost makes me cry.

That is an aside. If you can afford it, see a therapist. Take yourself out on dates; the kind of dates the EUM never bothered to take you on. Fill the emptiness with acts of self-love. This does not mean, however, that he doesn't like her personality.

Will it affect a man's opinion of a girl to know that she has dated much older men in the past? Particularly if he is wealthy I know it is popular for some guys to refuse to see the appeal in successful men and call girls 'golddiggers', which is something we have to live with.

Of course opinions vary, but in YOUR opinion, if a girl went out with a businessman, say of something, for a period of time while she was in her early twenties, would that shape your opinion of her? As in thinking she was in it for the money, that she was naive, thinking that he only had sex in mind etc.

Oh, while we're at the subject, can you add something to the list for later topics? How much do guys care about the type of guys a girl has dated before. I'm asking because some guys at HUS seem to not want a girl who's had 'alpha males' in the past. For sure some guys will care about a girl's exs who they were, for how long, etc.

Just like jealousy because it is partially related , I don't think this is a male-female issue; it is a matter of the man's confidence and preferences. My guess is that most guys will care a little bit, but most will be content to know that you are with them now.

I personally don't give a shit who a girl has dated, but that is mostly because I am pretty conceited. If he was funnier than me, I just tell myself that I am smarter.

If he was stronger, I tell myself that I am more fun. If he had an enormous dick, I assume that I use mine better. You can probably appreciate how this kind of mindset is not sex-based. I know women who are just as cocky and I know men that aren't at all. I will put your suggestion on the list. But it depends on whom you're sitting across from of course, and her own maturity level regardless of her age.

I just come across recent pictures of Christie Brinkley - 58 years old: I am a black woman married to a white man 10 years younger, and I look younger and hotter than the women who are his peers. Even some of the black ones. I have always looked 10 - 15 years younger than my actual age, which is why he pursued me in the first place.

The problem is the baby thing if the woman in question is 40 or more years old, which has to be part of younger men not going for an LTR with an older woman. I think the baby thing is a problem anyway, even if the woman is under Firstly, fertility starts dropping at 30, then majorly at Many want several children, not just one - so you need to start way ahead of that. Nobody wants to rush such an important decision. When a man is with a woman the same age or younger, they are more 'in tune' and he doesn't have the stress factor with children.

You don't want to feel like you are having children only because "she is over 30, so we have to start sometime". A woman can be well mannered and from a good family, or she may not be. She may be intelligent and curious of knowledge, or she's not. She may be introverted or extroverted. But those things are often your given personality, at the very least they hare visible by the time you're I absolutely see the importance of life experience and being comfortable in your own skin.

You've said before that confidence is something women look for in men, not the other way around. And to be honest here - I know women who sleep with younger guys often doesn't end in dating. The guys they end up seeing are the type of guys who enjoy women taking charge. Which is still a minority of men? I think my connections of something women are particularly outspoken and promiscuous, but I need to ask: Is being 'lively', outspoken and 'fun' something that results in a LTR?

I know it gets attention, but I'm not sure if it gets a woman further. Mature men DO look for confidence in women and even a lot of men who aren't mature can see the value. I have seen women with off the chart confidence who could get any man they wanted without even trying. Having self-worth, integrity and not being insecure is of course important for women too. But 'off the chart confidence' only attracts a certain type of men.

It attracts those who want women to take charge - but that's a minority. If you'd ask a group of men to list the most important things they look for in a woman, they'd probably mention that she should have integrity and be true to herself, but they are unlikely to mention a woman who's outspoken or "owns the room". And that's not because they haven't met any women like that - we all have.

My experience is that those women have great short-term success, but not long term. Men can enjoy a woman doing the job for them, but get bored of it easily. Andrew, dating several women in a one-year period does not make you an expert on anything but really short term relationships where you were not even into the woman for anything but sex.

To be honest, most of the reasons why a guy older than you would get with an older woman have nothing to do with sex even tho sex is obviously important to men. I also disagree with your claim that women peek in their attractiveness in their early 20s. Some women age like fine wine and looked very unattractive or less attractive in their 20s but incredibly good later in life.

With other women they may not look as good as they did when they were younger but unless you knew them when they were younger it doesn't really matter as long as they look good to you now. And personally, I like how an older woman fills out and carries her weight differently than the average 20s woman or High School girl.

As long as the woman is fit it's all good. If it wasn't I would be trolling colleges for dates but I'm older than you too This is a first for me. I have never responded on any subject before. Let me first make it perfectly clear, I am an "old man" if you consider 79 as old. Having raised 3 fine girls and remained married to the same woman for over 50 years. Any form of sex died about 10 years ago and I doubt it will be resurrected any time soon. I would love to feel the softness of a woman in bed again.

Age would not matter only a touch of kindness and a whispered conversation soft touches and a warm breath on my old face. My advice to all of you. Forget about age, perceived beauty or lack thereof.

Embrace her and enjoy every blessed moment because when it's gone you don't have much left. I'm not sure the point of the question. It was a whole different world then. How I felt then as compared to now would be hard to define.

Anyway I see alot of wasted time and energy playing word games and one-upmanship in relationships when you could be doing some thing far more interesting. The point is to make you realize that your opinion now, at 79 - however right it may be - doesn't mean that my post is wrong. In other words, maybe you are right, maybe men shouldn't be so concerned with age; maybe it really isn't such a big deal.

But the fact is that we eligible men DO put a lot of importance on age, and women need to know this in order to navigate through the dating world.

I loved your comment I am so happy you made your point, some of these comments are so superficial and shallow, and yours was the truth, the loving truth. I'm fairly certain that the experiences you have discused throughout this article is just simply oppinions of people who are either too young to have experienced anything except lust or never knew what true love, passion, or truely connecting with another person is.

I am in my late 40's. I have 4 children. I am married to a man who is We have been together for over 11 years now. I was divorced for a few years and was not looking for anyone.

Either we are the exception to the rule, or simply meant to be together. We still can not get enough of each other, in or out of the bedroom. We are everything to each other and our life together is loving, exciting,and. My youngest child is the only child that is left at home now at the age of We enjoy being together, going places together and totally adore sex together.

All I can say from this point is Whether it is with somone younger, the same age, older, or simply by yourself. It doesn't matter what age we are as long as we are happy. I saw an article on Eva Longoria with a new 'boy toy' and thought of this post.

She's attractive and most men I know like her. Still, she can never hold down a decent guy and she's now in her late thirties. She constantly goes for younger men men with little internal attractiveness also it seems. The same goes for other celebrity women - which is proof that it doesn't really matter how well you look "for your age" as many of them look great. I'm usually the older women in my relationships..

The problem I have with younger men is that they become infatuated rapidly with grandiose gestures and many young men do not really have an idea of what real love entails.. I think I will probably cease dating younger men in the near future because there's only so much they can offer at their age whether they are aware of it or not attempting not to generalize here..

You the main author mentioned a couple of times that men want variety and we girls don't understand how strong is men's lust, or words to that effect. The thing is, in this as in many areas of life, humans are complex and varied, and individuals can't necessarily be predicted on the strength of group tendencies.

I, for instance, am a very happily married girl, but this does not stop me from wanting to sleep with any beautiful boy I see. It also doesn't detract in the slightest from my love towards my husband, or even from my appreciation of his physical beauty. It's just that those other boys are beautiful too, so I want them strongly in a purely physical way, without having any interest in their personalities if any.

Several of my female friends tell me they have similar 'urges'. Some perhaps many girls do strongly want variety even if, like me, they don't act upon this potent desire because they think their husbands don't deserve to be cuckolded. And incidentally I've seen several spectacular, dramatic displays of romantic emotion from men: I'm not trying to be nasty or 'teachery': First off, your presumption that women get less attractive as they age is false.

This doesn't have to be the case. I'm a 45 yr old woman. I'm also making my living as a model. I'm often told I look much younger than I am, because I take good care of myself. I'm also smart as hell.

I'm an amazing partner, which is probably why my last 3 relationships have been with younger men. My current boyfriend is He fell in love with my fairly quickly. I can totally see what I have with him going somewhere longterm. My prior 2 boyfriends and yes I said "boyfriends", not "casual hookups" were We broke up because he had a serious drinking problem. I broke up with him after 4 yrs off and on, putting up with crazy-making behavior. The 2nd bf in his 20s is seriously an emotional cripple.

Maybe 1 day he'll grow up and figure out what he wants. We dated 6 months. I did not push them for relationships, as I was skeptical such a huge age gap could work. You make it sound as if all older women are easy and desperate, and all younger guys just want a 1-night stand with them.

Most younger guys are tired of the BS games that girls their age play, and want someone who can actually carry on a conversation.. And many are quite open-minded about the possibility that an age-gap dating situation is not just about "bagging a cougar. Most europeans acknowledge the allure and attractiveness of older women and have no problem entering relationships with them.

Anyway, I intend to keep modeling as long as people will pay me to get naked, and date my yr old. If so, I'll definitely update you: Post a picture of yourself at age 24 and now. Let's see what the public thinks. Btw, I'm European and know guys all over Europe. Many of them date older women. But I'm afraid their intentions aren't more 'noble' - they are temporary especially if the woman is American! Men from France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland etc have different manners and approaches to women - to Americans they come off as very emotional and romantic.

That may be true, but it doesn't mean they are serious about you. Of course I don't know your boyfriends, but I see something and older women move to Europe all the time and hooking up with younger men.

Whether they date 2 weeks or 2 years isn't relevant - it doesn't end in marriage. The fact that the younger men you've dated have drinking problems, are emotionally unstable, immature etc. You may very well be attractive and intelligent but ALL the high quality men I know around 30 whom are looking for commitment, are engaged or married to women their age or years younger.

I still believe it makes sense for women to go for men their own age or over. I happened upon this blog yesterday evening and I'm impressed with the thoughtful dialogue between you, Andrew, and my fellow readers. I'm commenting on your topic of younger mens' perceptions of older women because I am a recently single 46 yr. However, I disagree with some of your observations when I apply them to myself.

I get hit on by men as young as 19, some with beautiful hard bodies, but I choose not to "share" my body with them as I'm not easy and I'm perhaps being naive, but I'm holding out until I meet someone I really like and that really likes me, not just my body. And as far as my attractiveness level peaking in my 20s, that really made me laugh because I know I have a better body than most 20 yr.

So, in my case, "hot" is applicable or so I am told by many men most of which are under the age of I had a couple of guys that said they didn't care about having children and wanted a serious relationship with me but I didn't like them enough to get serious with them so I'd rather not get involved just to avoid being alone. Would I like a serious relationship with a younger man? The answer is yes. Do I think a relationship with a man 20 yrs.

But then again, what does, with the exception of the shelf life of a twinkie? I know I'm probably taking a chance with my heart but I'm willing to take this chance as I figure I don't have anything to lose. My dilemma is where to meet men.

I don't frequent bars. Never been my scene. The idea of me sitting in a bar is coma inducing. Thus far, I've met guys mostly at parties, on dating sites and just being out and about doing errands. But this doesn't happen on a regular basis.

Sometimes if a woman is fat in her 20s and slims down in her 30s or 40s she might look better, but it is because her weight loss balances her loss of beauty elsewhere.

This is a tough one because some guys just prefer older women, just like some people prefer to be pedophiles. There's not a whole lot of reason behind it other than that's what they are attracted to. From what I have seen, it's a matter of low self-esteem on the older woman or significantly older man's end.

If it makes the older woman feel hot and young, and the guy is willing, then I guess good for her, but she's probably got some of her own issues to work out. Some guys, as in, a small fraction of them. Just look at what men DO, and ignore what they even I say. How many men do you know who have married older women or have dated them long-term and had a deep emotional connection? Even in the latter case, consider why the relationship ended Yes, hopefully a small fraction.

I think there's a big difference between the "Stifler's Mom" trend so to say and the number of men who would actually pursue an older woman in a serious manner. My fiance has dated older women or so years and he said it was because they pursued him and were therefore easy to have sex with.

All of them married too young, had children too young, then divorced by the age where most sensible people begin to marry. Prime set-up for initiating desperate acts that are meant to fill a void.

Almost impossible for the older woman to avoid feeling dejected afterwords because deep down they are aware of the true nature of the encounter. Who wouldn't want to feel young and hot again because some young hot guy is sleeping with them?

The times where I have been pursued by older men, I couldn't help but think, 'What is wrong with this 32 year old that he wants to date an 18 year old? It's got to be a lot different for girls than it is with guys, because I was always genuinely creeped out.

Yes, "some guys just prefer older women". I'm one of those guys, and I agree that "There's not a whole lot of reason behind it other than that's what they are attracted to". I have really noticed how much I prefer older women as I have watched my wife get older. Many men of all ages are in fact seriously dating women their own age or a few years older.

My mum is two years older than my dad, both my grandmothers are a few months older than their husbands. It's a common notion you read on the Internet that older women are not seriously interested in women older than them , and I'm sure many are not but many are and I'm sure that nearly every person here knows at least one couple where the women is older.

I have to agree that alot of men in Andrew's age group think the same way he does. I think they lack emotional depth and see love in a more calculating way.

Love to them is feeling infatuated with a physically attractive women who also meet their ideal girl checklist.

Many women are also like this. So many people are blinded by people's good looks. I know plenty of women in their late or mid thirties who are educated and seem so confident and intelligent but put up with so much crap because they are infatuated with a good looking, tall guy who is not as responsible or educated as they are.

Those of us who want to get married, want to be loved despite our declining looks or flaws that cannot be changed. Aing to love someone with wrinkles and all. Yes looks do fade with age no matter how much you try to take care of yourself and we have a difficult time accepting that in ourselves and others. It preys on our libido and fear of aging for the mighty dollar.

I think people were more accepting of aging prior to television and the media's influence on our culture. I am of African descent and we simply don't age the same, Andrew. My BF is 27 and I am 32, I look much younger than him he's white. You mght want to make the point that people of color age much better or should I say differently than their white counterparts. I'm Asian and look younger than my age. I'm seeing an a white American guy my age, but he looks like he's 7 years older than I am--and he's relatively fit.

While I would have wanted to date a guy who's at least 5 years older than me, I often think twice because most Caucasian men in that age range look much older than they really are, and would be accused of pedophilia if they date me.

Most Asian men I know of, unfortunately, are married, gay, or mamas' boys. Speaking from recent experience here. I am a man in his late 20s who recently ended a relationship with a woman in her mid 30s. First, she was probably one of the most attractive women I have been with and we ended up dating for a while. The age difference is really a deal breaker, regardless of how hot she is. She was looking for marriage and kids.

As you start dating them, you realize the reasons why they remained single way into their 30s. Waiting for an "all in one package" is one of them and always thinking they can do better wealth, looks, social status, etc.

This is the general nature of many hot women here in NYC. Selfish personality is also another reason. The problem is, even if you have the mindset of not taking it long term in the beginning, as you start dating, you will develop feelings. I can say that I loved her, regardless of her flaws, and I honestly still miss her.

I truly enjoyed every moment with her, but the age difference was constantly in the back of my head. Feelings of guilt, getting in too deep, and rationalizations creep in fast. Ending it was an extremely difficult move, but I know it was the right decision for both of us in the long run. As a guy, I know I would not feel "ready" in life until I turned the 30 corner.

Reasons a guy won't take these relationships full commitment are: Pregnancy risks down the road, 4. The thought of possibly meeting a younger woman to fall in love with. We are human, we develop feelings, but the reality of life can make it all inconvenient. I am sure there are those who commit fully and sometimes I wish I could be one of them.

Andrew please explain, I see lots of men once they hit the threshold of 30 go after women purely for their youth irregardless of how they look. This baffles me that even some beautiful ladies in their late twenties are cast aside in favor of women in their very early twenties. A lot of these women aren't even much to look at so do they think that this will change? Rating women , how much can one 'reduce' the loss of attractiveness over time?

No matter how well a woman keeps up her looks, she'll be less attractive at 45 than she was at 25 unless she didn't take care of herself back then , so there is an inevitable loss. Take Denise Richards as an example as she's an actress I find very attractive - she was better looking 10 years ago, but how many 'points' would you say she's fallen?

Is it even possible to be an 8 at 40? Plastic surgery can work miracles. To an untrained eye, it can shave off years of aging. I know this because I saw before and after photos of the woman I dated, although I never could figure out what she did to her face.

Other than lip plumping and botox, what else can a women get done to youthen up her face? The best thing is to slow it from the beginning: Make up tricks can also work.. It can be hard to predict how a woman is going to age though, there are lots of early twenties hotties walking around a few of which you know are going to be beat by their early thirties. Some will manage to keep their looks. It almost seems to be clever to pick a woman past her early twenties mid to late because if she has managed to hold onto her looks past that point you know she will hold onto them for some time after that.

Also I agree look at the mother because it seems most women do turn into them physically providing no environmental factor interference. All women crave being desired at any age. The less physical attention a woman is used to, the more she appreciates it.

An attractive 25 year old who takes care of herself and dresses to emphasize her assets, will get attention from men non stop. It's also the background for the first point in Andrew's post - they're easier to have sex with.

Age really seems to matter to guys. Maybe things have changed in a year but as a 26 year old woman.. As a 27 year old woman there's has been a significant difference. It's different though in person, I still have men coming up to me to tell me that I'm pretty and get honked at by guys in cars, looked at.

I am dating now but I find that it is harder to get a man interested in you when all the facts are laid out there straight for him to see even with a cute photograph than it is when they actually look at you and assess your physical attractiveness and femininity upfront.

When you think about it it is a little silly, I understand that some men might care for issues related to fertility even though a 27 year old still has at least 8 good years left to reproduce and a couple of supplemental years on top of that given technology but lots of men aren't even thinking about having babies, they want someone to date casually or fuck. You mightn't have a single wrinkle on your face or an extra ten pounds on your waist but still for some it's the number that counts.

I think its all about an insecurity of a woman as she ages. A woman can look good at any age of she takes care of herself. But then every person who takes care of themself when young and as they get older will show in later years.

Not to much drinking a healthy lifestyle exercising not smoking etc etc. Its an individual thing at the end. I am 7 years older than my bf. But isnt it about respect and how much you care for the other person. I think a man can leave a woman regardless of how old she is, same with women. My dad is only 3 years older than my mom and he decided to be an ass in the recent months and leave her for another woman 23 years younger than him.

Also marriage these days is close to pathetic. Marriage just seems to fade and divorce is so in. It kinds pisses me off. Personally sometimes i dont know if i can trust any man at times just causes all i hear is men biologically get attracted to fertility of young beautiful women etc. But isnt that where we defer from animals?

Stop being so damn superficial at times and just go for the looks and beauty and go for who the person is. Im sorry for this rant, but ive pretty much had it in general with to many things in this world we live in.

I wonder how anyone male or female could generalize how even their own gender feels about sex "a woman could never understand a man's sex drive" etc. Such a young guy,too, to have such an old fashioned mindset. I don't think it is a matter of being a "real" female. It is a matter of being less emotional and more physically sexual. You aren't "less" of a woman, you just want sex more than most women. You'll probably need to find a guy who can match your sexual drive in order to be fulfilled.

I'm sitting here having a little giggle. All these generalisations are fascinating to me. Why are they necessary? To make you feel less uncertain? More in control of the uncontrollable? These apparent 'answers' are a mirage. We live in a post-modern era where, yes, we need to be aware of other people's realities but we don't have to accept them as our own.

If I took on board the general consensus in here I would start questioning everything I know to be true I do agree, however, with the general agreement that 'looking after yourself" is very important and so few people actually do this. So many many people are sabotaging their lives and potential for success by eating non-food highly processed, coloured, flavoured, mucked-around-with-rubbish and by refusing to use their bodies in the way nature intended - WALK instead of drive Give me excuses and be fat, end of story.

Drink Coke and be fat and age prematurely Oh but I am generalising now? People are wonderful and people's lives are fascinating and should never be pigeon-holed no matter how tempting that process may be. You just never know Love the discussions though, well done, I especially enjoyed the perspective of the 79yo fellow And be kind because everyone is dealing with some form of internal struggle Just make sure you don't scatter those seeds on a cold and sterile ground Andrew you are very old-fashioned and have not noticed the world changing around you.

Studies actually show that many men will choose older attractive women over younger ones and that it is a myth that they will choose quantity over quality if you want to talk on basic animalistic terms of reproduction. There are many beautiful women that are aging better than ever and are open minded enough to have relationships with younger men. In fact, what has even motivated to write your opinions on this topic. Perhaps to understand your need to be validated by a young women?

Be careful, I'm sure that once a younger women hears some of your views that she will be completely turned off by your archaic views. I never said that men would prefer younger women to older attractive women. In fact, if you read the post titled " What Men Think About Older Women " you will see I say that - all else being equal looks, weight, etc.

I agree with you and the study. I also never said men would choose quantity over quality. Again, if you read my other posts Men and Sexual Variety you will see that I agree with you; I say that men choose quality over quantity i.

I agree with the post above andrews. I'm a young girl. I'm 22 and I'm turned off completely. Andrew your a sexest goof and no absolutely nothing about women! Your just a nobody sersiously why are u even posting this shit on the internet, do you not have a life. There is no absolute rules on earth. Every human is a unique dance of life. Totally disagree with older women being easier to 'nail'. If one is conservative in their 20's then they will likely continue to be so in their 30's, 40's etc I've only once had sex with someone who didn't want to marry me.

Age hasn't changed how I don't like casual sex or sex with someone who isn't crazy about me - and a man's intentions are always obvious. A very good looking and successful man married a woman 10 years older than him he was 36 and she 46 at the time.

We met a year after they married through work. Over a period of a few months we became very close he made the move and became lovers and very close friends.

I am also older by 6 years, and this has been going on for 6 years now. He is 42, I am 48, and she is He spoke to me many times of the mistake he made marrying and the desire for us to be together.

Still, he is very attractive and can have any woman he wants, he likes all women, not older as a rule, and he looks younger then I also look younger and have no issues attracting attention from men of all ages. But why he chose me?! I asked him more then once and he said it is because we became very close and developed a connection, he finds himself very attracted sexually to me, and he trusts me completely. I am really not sure if I like to take things further and this upsets him.

Still, my question is - is he honest, why me, it's been 6 years! It is not just about sex because we canot meet often, and as he travells all the time, he can find this easily elsewhere. I think this pretty much confirms the post - "Older women should be cynical about younger men who claim they want to date seriously".

He is screwing both of you around. If he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you. I thought about it too, but 6 years is a very long time. He can easily have much younger lovers and without problems if it is just about sex. By seeing me he is risking his career too and this worries me. Oh, and another interesting thing - he did want children but told me that for him it is more important to be with a woman he connects with and that he is in peace now about not having kids.

Every man who's unfaithful takes risks - taking risks is a type of excitement a lot of men crave - at least the cheaters do.

If you're hoping for something other than sex to develop between you, forget it. It's been 6 years - if he wanted the two of you to be a couple, it would have happened by now.

We are both separated and he did try to convince me to go and be with him many times. His career took him to another continent and I am afraid to take the risk, leave my job and family and follow him. I know he is not seeing others from our mutual friends who lobby on his behalf. We are also known in our area of work and this would not help- he does not care about it, but I do. I hear other men say 25 is the expiration date, but they cannot be serious. It's just a way of trying to get the upper hand over women by creating an illusion that they'll have to settle as soon as they're approaching Most men aren't George Clooney, after all.

I'm 22 and I am the only one of my friends who find men over 40 attractive, and I am the only one who's ever dated anyone over And the amount of over 40s I find attractive is very, very small. This entire thing about men being so damn fortunate age-wise is true for only a very small amount of men. I think people forget what it's like for MOST guys out there. Also, men don't get more attractive as they get older.

They just peak a bit later. Liam Neeson was hot in his 40s, post 50, he's an old man. The most significant disadvantage for women is fertility, which limits the amount of time available if you want a family. But I don't know a single woman who thinks she must find someone before As said in another post, is a woman's most attractive age to find a partner. Relationships are more complex than the over generalizations expressed here. I'll take my dog over any man.

He is more faithful and doesn't give a shit if my ass is wobbly. It is ridiculous to state that the woman's most attractive age is ! All women are different and have their pick at different age, child bearing has nothing to do with it.

I live in Germany and the women here don't have kids before they are in their mid or late 30's. They look good, have succesful professional and social life and attract plenty of eligible bachelors. From my experience, women who are confident, successful, and take care of themselves have plenty of admirers regrdless of their age. And those somethings - we eat them for breakfast and throw them away after because they can't provide anything except sex!!

I think I agree that women are most attractive between 26 to When you think of all the Hollywood stars their biggest roles they seem to have have occurred in the timeframe: Walk The Line, Kate Beckansale: Pearl Harbour, Diane Kruger: Also the current crop of late twenties women are pretty wow: Early thirties seems good too for women who were attractive to begin with..

I believe women are most attractive between 20 - Of course my opinion might change as I grow older. The older guys already have kids in most cases, many had difficult relationships with younger women that they find boring and unfulfilling and absolutely love the company of older, attractive, sexy woman who knows how to please a man. Often those "older" ladies are in a lot better shape then their past girlfriends or wives, have better skills socially and are more adventurous in the bedroom.

These women are confident, not desperate to get married or have kids as most have that already, and look for fun and pleasure. Often this attracts men a lot more and, in many cases, loving relationship develops. There is a lot of self-convincing going on here. The post clearly states that there are positives and negatives to dating an older woman. I agree on them, but all these comments on older women being sexy, gorgeous, amazing and "eating younger women for breakfast" are a bit desperate.

It confirms my impression that something women can get a tad full of themselves and THAT is a turn off. If they're all superstars, how come there are so many single something women? And why do men leave their wives for younger women? It sounds a bit like the Sex and the City tune, "If I repeat that I am fabulous often enough, it will eventually be true". And PS men don't care about your "professional success" or "financial independence". I think there are too many fixated on the age 30 and over 30's.

It varies from woman to woman. I am 28 and I get carded more often than not bearing in mind that I live in a country where the drinking age is 18 and it is constantly said to me even by strangers that I don't look my age.

I do think women and men age at different rates.. I know a man of 23 who is already grey with prominent wrinkles. I know of women my age and younger who look ravaged. I know older women with bodies I envy. Genetics are the main determinant face shape,fat distribution, skin type followed by lifestyle. Now I don't know what I'll look like by 30 in two years Many women chose to be single after being in boring marriages. As a matter of fact,in most cases women walk out on a marriage after the kids are grown-up, not the men.

The middle age crisis in men chasing young girls just to prove they can still pull is different to the women's view where she is looking to live an interesting and exciting life, not just taking care of husband and kids. And it's not just about sex either, that you can find easy at any age if looking good. Personally, I prefer men in their 40's but of course most are either married or attached. Well,I am a 23 year old girl, very pretty and sexy according to all men I know until She is 47, in great shape and has lovely personality.

She never dresses provocatively nor flirts with my friends but most of them are crazy about her. Sometimes it is embarassing for me to sit with them and listen to all comments about how fit and sexy she is, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I am not jelaous. When I tell her sometimes that she has a fan club she just laughes it off. This year she received 9 cards on St Valentine,flowers and chocolates. And she is not even interested in seeing anyone since her divorce from my Dad 2 years ago. So, I do believe that young men can like or fall in love with older attractive women,I can see it in front of my own eyes. I guess that's why no women ever get married after Now you are just trolling.

I am guessing you are under 25 by the way you write.. Every girl I've met on PlentyOfFish after 25 start to get gross. Well, that could be to do with the quality of women over 25 that YOU can attract as opposed to the general quality of women over You are making a generalization relating to male preferences when in fact men have different tastes so that "unappealing" over 25 that you meet could be very appealing to someone else.

Granted women then to peak in attractiveness in their twenties but asserting that any woman past that point is "gross" is retarded. If that's the way you feel though, don't agree to meet them. Scientifically speaking, women start showing visible signs of aging at That doesn't mean some women don't start getting wrinkles and sagging skin before that due to a very bad lifestyle, but a woman with a "normal" lifestyle or even someone who lives very healthy, will start showing signs at Attractiveness is of course linked to fertility.

Women under 25 are typically considered more desirable than women over A 27 year old women will be considered marginally less appealing than a 23 year old. And a 19 year old is more physically attractive than a 23 year old. The point here was when "aging" really start. I'm 22 and my sister is 27 and I do not see any "aging" on her, nor any of her friends.

They do take care of their figures, but I don't see any change in their faces either. IMO, you see it after 30, and mainly after I think the word marginally is a bit of an exaggeration. I am 27 and I get a lot more attention from men than I ever did at It varies from person to person. I can tell if a female is 19 or 23 just by lookin at her: I am sure that you will see plenty gorgeous and stylish women and you will not be able to even guess their ages.

European women are great in keeping their natural beauty longer and have sex appeal. That's my view as a 32 year old guy who had the opportunity to experience a lot of women. I will take a well kept 40 year old Frau or Madam over a 20 year old Miss x full of herself any day! Boring and desperate to land a husband I don't think this proves anything age-wise. Europe has much less obesity than the US along with other bad lifestyle habits so a 22 year old European generally looks better than a 22 year old American as well.

European women still don't look better as they age, they peak the same age. In my experience in Spain it's the reverse: But, it's true, the 40 year old women are often pretty hot. My mum is 48 and my stepdad is They met 13 years ago when he was dating a girl his age and my mum was going through a divorce.

She rejected him at first bcause he was so much younger but he fell in love hard. They love each other to bits, have 2 kids together and you would never guess the age gap! Everyone is different,you can't plan who you fall in love with!

I am one of those older women seeing a much younger man,9 years to be exact and he is I did not approach him, actually I ignored his attention for almost a year. But he wants me and he knows that I will not want children. I love him too and struggle to let go. He proposed to me last weekend and I said that I need more time I'm 47 and I a have this 35 year old guy flirting with me a lot. He lives an hour away and invited me to go on a bike ride today, in which I declined, but he texts me several times a week.

I don't look my age and when I first met him, he thought I was the same age as him. But damn, thanks for clearing up all my thoughts on the matter.

So if anything happens, it will be sex only, no attachments! Well,this is according to the opinion of a 27 year old man who has never been married. And also if your guy has a nasty mother who may not like a 47 year old daughter in law! But I see no reason for you to ignore him if you like him. Go and have some fun! By her mids a female has definetly lost that "hotness". A woman's peak as far as looks go runs between the ages of 17 until she is roughly He only wants you when you're He'll take a polaroid and let you go, says he'll let you know, so c'mon.

Just because a woman is "past her peak" does not mean that she's no longer attractive. I'd wonder if you are about sixteen Anonymous if it weren't for the Polaroid references. No females wants to face, head on, the horrible truth that a woman's physical attractiveness, for ALL woman on the planet, rapidly decreases over the age of I think for some men it's more of a case of age as being a badge of honor than anything else..

I read somewhere that if a woman manages to retain attractiveness she is more likely to retain that attractiveness to an extent for the rest of her life. Anonymous, I agree that the peak of attractiveness occurs usually in the early twenties but that does not mean that a woman's attractiveness dissipates entirely after 25 as many men here are attempting to imply.

Perhaps the manosphere is a better place to comment regarding this as there are women here like me and many others attempting to use the advice that Andrew gives to better our love lives. Age is important, of course,in women and in men. But an ugly, fat, or unattractive 20 year old is likely to get less if any attention in comparisson with a pretty and sexy 40 year old.

After all, looks and behaviour are by far more important in finding someone a turn on than age. Some of this stuff about older women is pure nonsense to me. I think the choices they make in dating all points back to their physical preferences based on the quality of their own looks.

The myths regarding older women and easier access is not necessarily true. Some are definitely easier than others and some are pickier than others. I personally avoid curious older women who all of a sudden have a new found love interest in shorter guys.

I'm a 5'5 guy. Women don't like short guys and they never cared for me in the first place so why now all of a sudden at such an advanced age? Their disdain for short men and all the negativity our society imposes on us is well documented all over the web and this world. Women who have kept their looks with age still choose men based on the attention they receive. They all desire the 6 foot and up guys so don't let them fool you by saying that a man's height is not important. Short guys are always the very last choice or remain unchosen.

Please let me know isn't any health problem if young man will have sex with old women may be 20 years of age different? I am 34 and have never dated younger men but after my L TR with my ex 45yold I am now free to live life. I am still hot and quite a few younger guys pursue me. Lately fallen for a sucessful 27 handsome man we been dating 3 months. He thinks i am beautiful , sex is great. If he wants that in the future, he will move on when the initial lust fades away Interesting -- and sadly off-mark on so many points.

I don't even know where to begin. I'm not interested in them because come on now they're children: I don't have time to teach these boys how to have sex; yet I get far more interest from them now than when I was 19 myself. If we assumed that your points were valid, then shouldn't the converse be true?

I don't think most men get better looking once they're past their mids. In fact, many of them lose most, if not all, of their hair at that point, and it seems pretty clear to me that most men age far worse than most women. If I look around at men my own age, for example, they almost all far older than I do, and yet are looking for women at least 10 years younger than they are.

Do you see the utter hypocrisy here? If we're just going by looks and this seems to be your primary concern then I should be dating men who look at least as good as I do, in other words, men in their mid-to-late 20s.

And men my own age late 30s should be dating women whose looks are on par with theirs Get real, we all know this isn't really about looks, it's about maturity. Men mature far more slowly and that's why they look for women younger than themselves.

One interesting effect of the obesity epidemic has been an increase in the desirability of Asian women. Thirty years ago, nailing an Asian chick was a consolation prize for a . recently embarked on Europe to practice and refine his game. Faced with a stern choice just months after graduation, he snubbed the advances of corporate London to live life on his own terms. Younger women is a topic I haven’t discussed here in a while. Bad me. Though I still date women my age (and older!), younger women have become such a normal and regular part of my life, I no longer consider it something unique or interesting enough to talk about.